Taylor School System in Financial Hardship.
The paper today has a big article regarding the financial status of the school system. Why do you think they are in that situation? Do you think they are just another vicitm of a fledgling economy, or something else? Has the TCBCC tried to jump in and help them like they wanted to dump over a million dollars of tax payers money into a corporation that the County has no control over? Personally, if my tax dollars are needed to help support something in the County that is suffering, I would rather it be for something like the School System. At least the money would be going to something that the Commission can actually be a part of, and that has a direct, obvious impact on the future. What do you think?
If anyone would like to read the monitoring report in its entirety, see the school district website at taylor.k12.fl.us. It lists the recommendations that have been made. Things do not look good for over 80 district employees, not to mention the children who will be "Left Behind". Its time we all stand together and support education. Our children deserve a quality education.
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I agree with you completely. It is time for the community to stop sitting quietly, and stand up and demand more from the people we hired, whether that ultimately results in replacing them at the poles, being vocal at all meetings, or both. I hope that report woke up those it needed to and that they step up now and try to support the problem so that the livelihood of those employees are protected, as well as, the future of our children.
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I agree.there is no accountability and our children will be the ones that suffer. Think about Perry Primary and the teacher aides. They are as important as the teachers and truly make a difference in the basics of primary education. The fundamentals are learned at this very impressionable age and it is important that all jobs are saved but most certainly the dedicated teacher aids. If they cut these jobs, young readers will struggle throughout their school years because a teacher cannot truly educate 20 plus kids without assistance from these valuable aids. Please voice your opinion and let your voices be heard.
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I am a teacher aide at the Primary School and totally agree with you. We do not get paid enough for what we do, but we are there because we love the children. These children at the Pre-K and Primary level is where the children get there foundation. The children are going to suffer in this. We are already short staffed and to cut more will do great damage.
I totally agree with your comment. Those that think different should come and sit in a KG class for a day.
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Here is what I am having trouble understanding. From my understanding, the FLDOE wants the TCSD to close the Steinhatchee school. Now if the teacher's aides are already needed and they are talking about cutting them, how are the schools going to handle the new students from Steinhatchee? I know there is only one school for all, which means the number is not huge, but what is the plan? Did the FLDOE offer any suggestions on how to implement all they want us to do without the children suffering? Off the top of my head, just think how early the kids from down there will have to get up, and how late they will get home.
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You're correct that the report called for the district to close Steinhatchee School. That school is very expensive to operate because it's so small, and the district loses quite a bit of money on it each year.
The Superintendent made it clear from the start that he has no plans to close Steinhatchee School, regardless of the recommendation of the report. But if the school were closed, its students (around 130, according to FLDOE as of 2006-07) would need to be relocated elsewhere. Some might go to Dixie County schools, while the rest would come to Perry.
The report uses a mathematical formula to calculate how many teachers a school should have. What the DOE has recommended is that the district stick to this formula.
Based on that formula, for example, the middle school has 12 teachers too many. So they would be able to absorb Steinhatchee's 6th, 7th, and 8th grade students with no problems.
That same formula, according to the report, actually shows Perry Primary as being SHORT two teachers--so they would need to add teachers to cover the incoming Steinhatchee students.
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Thank you very much for the response. It was very informative.
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I think they outta fire everyone up there !..................
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I am with you! These Administrators are the ones that are privie to the budget, not us common pee-ons. But isn't it funny that not a single Administrator, or School Board Member has suffered any of the cuts. They saw what was happening for years, and were in a position to stop it (the over spending) but kept quiet, or never paid attention in the first place....that's more like it. Yet, their salaries are safe and the worker bees are suffering. Where is my July money for payments coming from??????
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I agree with your general sentiment, but don't forget that all board members did offer to give up a month of pay. Also, the grant writer and assistant principals are administrators, and they were cut back to 11 months.
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Have you heard of getting a summer job ? Thats what I would suggest...Maybe you are spoiled from not having to work over the summer ?
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Who is will to hire someone for a month knowing as soon as you train them they will leave?
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Have you ever heard of mowing a yard ? Delivering pizza?? When my children were younger I delivered pizza as a second job. it is all about getting by...
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T Mac, c'mon. You're a better person than this. I am not a teacher and your comment offended me. This type of thinking is part of the problem.
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No offense meant....As stated I applaud you for your choice of profession. You are the building block of society and you practically raise most students as 90% of them have no parental direction at home. As a teacher you can choose to take your pay in 12 monthly payments. But as stated you chose your profession...I wanted to teach school also...However I realized I could not maintain the level of life I wanted for my children.
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As a teacher I am offended by that comment. Many of us DO work over the summer, we just don't get recognized for that. We get phone calls at home from parents, we grade papers until all hours, we are constantly revising lesson plans after hours to better suit the needs of our students. During the summer we start lesson plans for the next year, prepare paper work, and turn our four walls into child-friendly, positive learning environment. Teachers are never off. Administrators are never off. They are very busy preparing for the next school year. Go to any school site, I guarantee that you will find principals and the other admins working. They are making new schedules (which is lots harder than it seems, getting things ready for the students who are leaving their schools, getting things ready for the students who are entering their schools. They are making sure textbooks are ready and in good shape, they are making sure classrooms are presentable and ready for the teacher to prepare. They are training teachers, hiring and firing teachers, and compiling data. I even know some administrators who are staying involved with students over the summer, doing things like "lunch dates" and tutoring. I could go on and on, forever. Of course you will have the occasional slacker in any job, but most people in our school system WORK. You have no idea how much they do, and you probably wouldn't do it for their salary. Most people wouldn't. Don't insult educators by calling them spoiled. Educators are probably the least spoiled of any profession.
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Hey, I would be the first to sat that a teacher is grossly underpaid..And I applaud you for your choice of professions...I too wanted to teach, however I realized I would not be happpy on a teachers salary. .However, YOU chose your profession to go in...I am sure with a college education you could have gone in a different direction . I insulted no one. I just spoke a plain truth. We live in the greatest country in the world where a person can go anywhere when they want to and find a job...The question is do they feel they are below the job ?
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The TCBCC would probably not be able to provide funding to the local school board because they are two separate taxing entities. Maybe we should look at electing new people to the school board who actually have a background in education? Thoughts anyone?
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You are probably right about the funding and seperate taxing entities. That never crossed my mind. Thanks for the info.
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Where does the buck stop here? With Mr. Howard, the Superintendent of Schools? With every school board member? Time for a change? Who is ultimately responsible for the financial fiasco of our school system? If it is any of the above, do we want to re-elect them? Food for thought...
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First the funding is designated from the state. Second the funding is part of the tax base. Do you know why there is no money to be had ? First there is nothing in Taylor County to keep your children there...No industry to speak of and very few jobs. If the tree huggers would stop running off industry wanting to locate in taylor County( The Marina, and Power Plant) the tax base would grow.) Your funding depends on how many students you have there. Wake up people, Let industry come to Taylor County and you will see a bigger tax base. More better paying jobs means more students and a bigger tax base.
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Mr. Mac
I agree our children are leaving but it is not due to our acquiring or not acquiring more dirty and danger jobs. Now try to be honest, and tell me when you look at the local officials i.e.TCBoCC and TCDA do you really feel like they have your child's best interest at heart? Would you allow them to choose a college for you child or a medical treatment? Tree huggers did not stop jobs from coming to Perry as you imply. There were no "good jobs". Union workers build coal plants not local construction workers. Our community has been exposed to toxic chemical compounds without risk assessments or management. The number one discharge diagnosis at the local hospital is lung cancer and C.O.P.D. and the chemical is 2.3.7.8 TCDD look it up @agency for toxic substance and disease registry.
Test results according to E.P.A 28(n)samplings ranging up to 88ppt.
I can not believe a job is worth the health price this community suffers as a result of special interest needs being placed before the health and safety of the citizens. By the way did you forget the tax exempt vote for businesses. How much are you willing to pay for your job? These are the things which bother me, what do you think?
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yes, I do feel like the local officials have our best at heart. if I didnt think so I would be up there working or you would be there working. if one wants change, including myself we have to be willing to work for it. So to answer your question yes I do support them.
In my opinion yes, tree huggers played a major part in keeping the new jobs from coming to Taylor County. The implications from both of those projects would have been felt countywide. Local jobs would have been created. Yes most of but not all of the workers may have come from outside but many local people would have become gainfully employed. These same workers would shop our grocery stores, buy gas, stay at our motels and would have passed money into the local economy. Any job is a good job if it gainfully employees a person.
In response to your remark about C.O.P.D. Cigarette smoking is the most common cause of COPD. Most people with COPD are smokers or former smokers. Breathing in other kinds of lung irritants, like pollution, dust, or chemicals, over a long period of time may also cause or contribute to COPD.
So how many of the people in Taylor County have died of C.O.P.D. were cigarette smokers ?
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I bet this response is related to Buckeye and the Union.
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No this statement is in response to 5/21/2008 3:59 PM Razzbaboo remarks response that Buckeye is responsible for the cancer in Taylor county. I just simply provided facts that cigarette smoke is the primary response for lung cancer.
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I agree that we need to bring better/more jobs into our community. Also, many want to know how this could happen. I can not speak about that actually financial problems created by our district, but I will say this. Those who voted "YES" for the property tax amendment and did not educated yourself fully, can bare some blame. Our society is all about "Me" and did not consider the implications that it would have on our schools. In the end, will it be that big of a savings on property taxes? Not so much in this community, just what and see.
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The cut in funding from the state has hurt the district, to be sure. But it's not the cause of the financial situation the district in. Read the report on the district's website to see what the causes are. The primary one is overstaffing.
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Razzbaboo wrote: By the way did you forget the tax exempt vote for businesses. How much are you willing to pay for your job?
No, I have not forgotten that the voters beat that tax one time, then the next time voted it in - a mistake I think. There's part of the tax problem in Taylor County, businesses are not paying their fair share of taxes - they are "exempt". Thank the TC Development Authority for that. When have YOU received any "exempt" from taxes help?
Your taxes even paid for the county to advertise that tax exempt for businesses issue, and you didn't even know it. Those newspaper ads and signs and bumperstickers were paid for by YOU, and the TCDA didn't even have to put a notice on them, telling you that you paid for them. Now, don't you wish you'd voted NO on it?
How much more are you going to be expected to fund special interests?
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The Boardroom was filled to capacity, folks sitting on the floor, standing along the walls and in the doorway and guess what? Mr. Howard seemed uncomfortable having to public answer for his and the Board's shortcomings in their fiduciary responsibility. On a number of occasions, he raised his voice when the questions were not to his liking. The Board sat their clueless saying how difficult this way for everyone. But I don't believe anyone in the audience left very satisfied. The Board still passed the financial recommendation of the Executive Team Committee. Do the members of the Board actually believe they did something right on Tuesday night? Oh, they gave up one month's salary which equates to approximately $2,100 each. Mr. Howard, one month salary from you would have really been great (approximately $8,000) but no one saw you "volunteer" to donate back to the District. Aren't you partially responsible for this fiasco? It might be easier to blame the former Finance Director Bill Hunter, but you and the Board were charged with keeping the school district financially sound from year to year. Surely if Mr. Hunter was doing such a BAD JOB, why was he not terminated? Instead you have made him your scapegoat in this situation. Shame on you!!!! Shame on all of you!!! How can you sit there so piously and claim "its hard for everyone here," when you couldn't really answer one question asked. And what was the deal about local banks and credit unions "helping" those employees who will be cut back one month, that those financial institutions would be willing to work with the local school board to "finance" one month's salary "with interest" to be automatically paid back once school starts through payroll deduction? Ms. McManus said the banks are in the business of making money, so of course they would expect the money paid back with interest. I can't believe the gall and audacity you six people have. Mr. Dennis, I wish you could have seen the look on your face when Mr. Lundy, Mr. Whiddon, and Ms. Carlton said they were giving back one month's salary to help the general fund. It was classic!! For all of the Board members, we voted you in, we can vote you out! You are public servants or have you forgotten? Here's an idea, each of you should give up five days a month (from your jobs)to help in the classrooms since 28 general funds teacher aide positions were eliminated. I am sure you all meet the minimum qualifications to hold the position. I sure hope that Mr. Howard is right when he said the "right" person is now in the Finance Director's position. Why weren't you monitoring the finances of the district more closely? You said now you have a checks and balance system in place. Why hasn't that system always been in place? And for Ms. Gibson, good luck! It will be my pleasure to tell people 'VOTE FOR SHELBY' every chance I get. The time for change is now.
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Is this the same school board who made a national joke out of Taylor County when they became the first county to vote unanimously AGAINST the new science standards that require the teaching of evolution as science in your schools? Why I believe it is.
And is this the same Supt of Schools who made reference to the fact that because he didn't have a tail he couldn't have been related to monkeys? Again, bingo!
This, my good people, is what decades of the dumbing down of Florida schools has wrought. Funding your schools properly is the first step. The next step is putting EDUCATED people on your school board and in the positions of leadership.
As a student in the TACO schools in the 60's and 70's we learned evolution and the only discussion was that some people may choose NOT to believe but that it was supported by scientific evidence. Until North Florida, Taylor County included, decides to come into the 21st century (you can skip the 20th), then you're not going to attract decent jobs or businesses and you will continue to have statistics that show that educationally, you are at the bottom of the barrel - in percentages of high school graduates and college graduates and test scores as well.
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I disagree with you....We have had many young people move on from our County who have made great things of their lives. They are making a difference in medical fields, technological fields, business fields. Just because they have chosen to take a stand is not a reason to demean our town. Yes, I have taken several stands on things here on this board but I believe in our children...If we do not who will....
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Yes, there are exceptions to any rule, ME actually being one of them. But only 70% of Taylor residents have a high school education. The national AVERAGE is 80%. That does not speak highly for Taylor County.
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In 2006-07, the statewide graduation rate for Florida was 72.4%.
The gradation rate for Taylor County that year was 77.4%.
We also beat the state-wide average the year before that. And the year before that. And the year before that. And the year before that.
While I find it unacceptable for ANYONE to not graduate from high school in this nation in this day and age, I'd say Taylor County holds up fairly against the rest of Florida.
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I agree, we have seemed to hold our own over the years...If we do not support our youth who will. Thanks for a great point!!
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There are actually quite a few intellectuals who do not believe there is sufficient scientific evidence to support evolution, and there's no shame in this.
I do agree that the Oscar didn't represent the intellectual position, nor did the board. But they did represent the standards of the community they were elected to serve.
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Exactly.
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I had rather believe in creation and find out I was right than believe in evolution and find out I was wrong
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If that's the attitude of most of the people left in Taylor County, then you're doomed.
oh and by the way, there are NOT a large number of intellectuals who reject evolution. That's a myth you all keep telling yourselves.
And one more thing, evolution makes no explanation of creation. But then if you had a decent science education, you might know that.
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I had rather believe in creation and find out I was right than believe in evolution and find out I was wrong....leftlongago, whats going to happen to you if I am right and you are wrong ? Best to keep an open mind
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you're not right until you can prove to me the existence of a God. Until then, I'll throw my plight in with reason. I sleep much better at night now that I gave up all that fairy tale. I support your right to believe whatever you want, but you have no right to force your ideas on others.
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And I feel you are not right until you can prove to me that there is not a God...
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no, that is a wrong assumption. Until a God can be proven, then the assumption is that there is none. The responsbility to prove is yours, not mine.
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In formal logic, that's called an Argumentum ad Ignorantiam--an argument in the form of:
"There is no evidence for X. Therefore, not-X."
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What I said was that there are "quite a few." That's most certainly not a myth, and anyone familiar with creation science knows it. I do not claim that they make up a majority, and as Ben Stein's movie shows they tend to be persecuted, but they're definitely out there.
And considering that you have no knowledge of who I am and what my scientific background is, your comments are unfounded--not to mention rude. I realize you may find it hard to believe that there are intelligent people who doubt evolution, but I assure you we exist.
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I am not doubting your intelligence, and I understand that many people of faith have the same beliefs. You have every right to that belief and I commend you for standing by it and professing it. That is your right by whatever Creator there is. HOWEVER, in a nation of secular laws, it is not your right to force your beliefs on anyone else, and by requiring the teaching of intelligent design or creationism or any other religiously and spiritually based non-scientific explanation for science is unconstitutional.
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No one is talking about forcing a specific religion on anyone, and teaching the theory of intelligent design along with Darwinian evolution does not violate the Establishment Clause.
The Declaration of Independence starts:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights."
Is the teaching of the Declaration of Independence unconstitutional? Because it makes reference to a Creator.
That's all intelligent design does. Contrary to the belieft that ID is non-scientific, there's actually a field of study called creation science. Scientists in the that field maintain the position that the authors of the Declaration of Independence took--that it's self-evident that there is a Creator.
Teacing ID as a viable theory in schools is not the same as establishing a state religion. A reasonable curriculum to be used in public schools would make no attempt to teach Who that Creator is--only that many people believe that the signs of intelligent design are innumerable.
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Notice that I also mentioned a CREATOR. The Declaration of Independece's mention of a Creator neither constitutional or unconstitutional because it predates the actual Constitution.
What verson of Intelligent Design will you teach? A Hindi version? Perhaps a Native American version. What about the Pagan version. Surely, you don't mean only the Christian version. All of these religions, plus so many more as you are aware, are represented in this country. It would be UNCONSTITUTIONAL to force any one of these versions on another. While you claim that no one would try teach "Who tht Creator is," then why is it only fundamentalist Christians who are pushing so hard for this to be accepted? The history of this movement shows how disingenious it is and how their message has evolved (pun intended) because they continue to be marginalized by actual science.
There may be a field of science indeed called creation science. But until creation science is vetted and accepted by a majority of scientists and stands the test of peer review, then it should not be forced on our students. Besides, evolution makes no claim as to the origins of life, only how it has evolved.
While it is convenient for you to quote the Declaration of Independence, you should also note that no where in that document, nor anywhere in the Constitution or Bill of Rights, is a Christian God mentioned. Purposefully, and rightfully so, and with enormous genuis, our founding fathers (many of who were not Christians)chose NOT to include reference to anything other than a CREATOR. This is a secular nation of laws, not a theocracy.
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When I meet my maker, I will be glad I was right, you never answered my question though, what if when you cross over you find out there is a almighty God, what excuse will you give ?
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I didn't say the Declation of Independence was unconstitutional; I said that the TEACHING of it would be unconstitutional, according to your logic.
If the study of Intelligent
Design is unconstitutional because it concludes that there's a Creator, then so is the study of the Declaration of Independence since it, too, concludes that there's a Creator.
I think there's a misunderstanding of what it means to teach ID in public schools. It doesn't mean teaching the Bible's account of creation, or the Bhagavad Gita's, or the Qur'an's. ID is about teaching the weaknesses of evolutionary theory as an explanation of the origins and development of life, and the strengths of the theory that a divine Creator created life is more plausible than the theory that it happened randomly.
For a view of what creation scientists are up against, check out Ben Stein's movie "Expelled." Stein isn't a fundamentalist Christian. In fact, he's Jewish. He made the movie because he was growing increasingly concerned over the suppression of the voices of creation scientists. Anyone who questions the evolutionary status quo is quickly branded a heretic.
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Truth - You make some great points. I was extremely disappointed with how few questions the board asked, and the nature of their questions made me wonder whether they had really read and understoof the FADSS report.
The report makes some very specific recommendations on how avoid becoming overstaffed again. It starts on page 87. I'll drop dead of a heart attack if the district actually does it, though.
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Here we go again blaming the board for the financial hardships on the county. I bet these same people, voted for amendment 1(if they vote that is) I did and I am as guilty as anyone. By voting this amendment in we helped bring this hardship on ourselves...And the floundering economy ? Lets blame that on the Board also...The rising cost of fuel was an enormous differnece in the budget. Make those children within walking distance walk to school....But no we can not let our little obese children get some exercise. We must provide a bus route for them...Wake up people, we are as much to blame as anyone for the hardships within our county...
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You are right about the property tax amendment. People should have really did their homework before they voted. The few dollars each will save, will actually hurt them more. We are already seeing now, but wait until local Law Enforcement and Fire that depend on that money for equipment and such, have to cut back and not have the units to patrol, or when fire coverage is worse than it is now. I voted against it, but T. Mac don't take all the blame, because the majority of N FL voted against it, it was the majority of S FL and the snowbirds and people with money that wanted to pay less taxes for their luxurious homes that voted for it. So as usual, the rich benefit, while the middle and lower class and small counties suffer. It was much easier for the proponents to sell it to the public because they had the cut taxes on their side. Florida made a mistake, and now we all have to live with it.
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T.Mac, get a copy of the FADSS, read it, then reply back!
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I would agree that the passing of the property tax amendment didn't help school districts across the state, BUT what about the $1.8 million deficit from the past few years. That is not the state's fault but the district's board members and superintendent. I voted NO on the property tax amendment. And if it was meant to save us $$ on our property taxes, I didn't see any savings on the new tax bill I just got in the mail.
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If you have not seen a change in your property taxes I would say the Board is doing their job. They have not voted to raise the School Board Millage to raise that part of property taxes to cover the shortfall. Since I voted for amendment 1 I take part of the blame on myself. I am going to personally email the entire Board and Superintendant and ask them to raise the property tax millage from the school Board and that can help cover the shortfall from other property values. That way all us home owners can now bear the burden and bring our school system back into the black ....
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I did read the report, the board was actually $1,000,033 in debt NOT 1.8 million in debt(The 1.8 million shortfall is from the state contribution.)...then after corrections were made by the new Finance director found the ACTUAL deficit $600,000. If we take away the pay raise given to the year before the true deficit is actually approximately $100,000 k. This is a pay raise given above the STEP raise . The Board attempted to award the teachers by giving them a pay raise above and beyond the STEP raise..READ the report in depth and read between the lines...The 1.8 million deficit is money not furnished by the state that was CUT by the property tax cuts....I urge you to read the report and if you have an issue understanding it ask an accountant to explain it to you...we wrought this upon ourselves by passing amendment 1....The school board actually ran a tight ship...This is the same issues in all the school districts in Florida faces....Property tax cuts are what hurts our money..Not the school board members...Also, a little nugget..As the lottery places more money in education....The state slowly withdraws their contribution and spends that money elsewhere..If you did not see a savings in your tax bill, I would talk to the property appraiser then and ask them to reappraise your home because you may not be taxed enough.....I am sure they will willingly come out and do a more thorough appraisal and correct that property tax bill...
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We must not be reading the same report, T.Mac. The one I'm reading says the problem isn't a lack of funding, but an excess of spending. It does say that a decline in funding has made problems worse, but when you read it closely you see that this isn't the core of the problem.
Note that the report compares Taylor to a number of other similar counties in order to give perspective. These comparisons show things like:
* Taylor had the second-highest utility cost-per-student among comparison districts, and spent $102.89 per student more than the statewide average.
* Taylor had the highest gasoline / Diesel cost-per-student of comparison districts.
* Taylor had the second-lowest number of students per teacher of comparison districts
* Taylor had the lowest number of students per non-instructional staff member of comparison districts
All of this means we'eve been spending too much money--way more money than other similar Florida districts. As the report said, "Although student enrollment has been declining in Taylor from 99-00 to 07-08, the number of non-instructional staff has increased from 219 to 246 during that time. As a result, the ratio of students per non-instructional staff has decreased from 15.7 to 11.8 to 1. In other words, Taylor may be hiring more staff than enrollments warrant."
Some other intesting quotes from the report:
* "There must be a well-developed strategic plan and there must be a stronger linkage between the strategic plan and budget development." (Translation: The district has no plan, so it's no wonder it's struggling.)
* "Management skills must be integrated throughout the leadership structure." (Translation: The district has managers, but they don't have good management skills.)
* "Management rights and responsibilities must be better protected in the collective bargaining process." (Translation: Whoever has been representing the district in negotiations with the union has allowed the union to screw the district, which is why it takes an act of God to get rid of a crappy employee.)
* "A stronger sense of “team” must be in place among the executive administrators and the team must be more engaged in the day-to-day operations of the school system." (Translation: Management is fairly clueless about what actually goes on in the schools.)
The FADSS report recommends changes that need to be REGARDLESS of funding levels. In fact, it specifically says, that "it will be tempting when the first indicators of economic recovery are observed, to return to previous practices. Such actions would, of course, miss the mark of recovery." In other words, the district needs to spend its money much more wisely even if it has more money to spend in the future.
The core issue is this: The district has had fewer and fewer students to serve each year, but they've continued to hire more and more employees. The Director of Personnel, the Superintendent, and the Board are all responsible for this.
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Yes, but if not for the budget shortfall from the state this would not be an issue. Seems to me they are moving in the right direction then with all the layoffs.....Why are the people screaming about that then ?? If they overhire then they have the right to lay off....Also Touche on the teachers union!! They weld a higher power NOT only within our district but in all school districts....The power costs and diesel fuel good points..But is it really the Boards position to go out and negotiate costs ? They have a purchasing agent on board....This is that persons responsibility, that person is the one who is accountable and if they have not been doing their job then get a new purchasing agent... A purchasing agent should be negotiating all purchases, even the purchase of electricity from Progress Energy. Know we all know that if they did not purchase the fuel locally "our local suppliers", these same suppliers, would be throwing a fit. Again, I say we eliminate some costs by doing away with bus routes. Make the students close to the schools walk. I believe that there is a state law that said if a student lives within 1 or two miles of a school they do not have to provide transportation. This however would be an issue as there would be numerous complaints filed saying the Board is discriminating. Eliminate those routes and those drivers. The Board could also go a 4 day a week school week.
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* Taylor had the second-highest utility cost-per-student among comparison districts, and spent $102.89 per student more than the statewide average. In response to this the purchasing agent should go out AND NEGOTIATE the cost of electricity...Many other school Boards have done so. Also, if the good liberal tree huggers had not pushed away the Power Plant, just think of the savings the board might could have negotiated from them. They could also go to Buckeye and negotiate buying back their unused electricity thet do not use within their power plant.
* Taylor had the highest gasoline / Diesel cost-per-student of comparison districts. If the Board did not buy locally the member sof the community would be screaming that they do not support the local econmy...This is a lose lose situation.
* Taylor had the second-lowest number of students per teacher of comparison districts. This is actually a good thing...teacher-student ratio should be lower. Maybe that is one reason the Middle School consistently tests above the state. Their is a price to pay for our students to get a quality education.
* Taylor had the lowest number of students per non-instructional staff member of comparison districts. Layoffs would be warranted...why is everyone complaining then about the layffs ?
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TMac,
You make some excellent points. You've hit the nail on the head with the fuel prices, energy usage, and layoff complaints. Wish I knew who you were, more than that I wish more people truly understood the situation like you do. People in this town want to place blame and make someone the scapegoat, this is not the fault of one person. Kudos to you.
Another thing I don't understand...why the fuss about Taylor? Do you not all realize that this is happening all over the state?
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You're right that every district is having to cut. Just look at Tallahassee.com to see what has been happening in Leon County.
However, Taylor is the only district in Florida classified as being in severe financial distress and having the Department of Education step in (although I think Miami-Dade may be about to go the same route). They're the only district that has spent more money than they've brought in (which is against the law) for several years.
You're right that this isn't one person't fault. It is, however, the fault of several people. I don't suspect these folks will be held accountable, though. Well, other than the Superintendent, who will be stepping down in November. Time will tell whether the public holds the school board accountable.
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After doing some research it is my belief that there is no law to hold a school board member accountable for such. I for one am not going to run and I am happy with the decisions made by the current superintendent and board members. They make choices everyday and yes some are tougher than other....I will not call into question their integrity. I have known the current superintendent for years and his integrity and honor is above many. As is each of the school board members. My question is if you are so unhappy...have you filed the proper paperwork to run for one of the offices ? If not why not ? If one wishes to make change they must get up and no longer make nosie but be a doer in our society.
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The law holds the school board and superintendent accountable for spending more money than the district brings in. The statutes says that "[a]ny member of a district school board or any district school superintendent who violates the provisions of [the law relating to balanced budgets] commits malfeasance and misfeasance in office and shall be subject to removal from office by the Governor." They also say that "[e]ach member of any district school board voting to incur an indebtedness against the district school funds in excess of the expenditure allowed by law . . . shall be personally liable for the amount, and shall be guilty of malfeasance in office and subject to removal by the Governor."
I do not question the integrity of the superintendent or the board. I believe they have done the best job they could. However, in reading the FADSS report it becomes apparent that they lack the skills necessary to effectively manage a large organization. The superintendent put someone in charge of personnel who's smart but clearly unable (or unwilling) to devise a realistic staffing plan and use standard mathematical formulae for calculating staffing ratios. The Director of Personnel continued hiring staff when declining student enrollment didn't warrant it. The superintendent didn't stop him. The Board didn't stop the superintendent. The entire system of checks and balances failed.
If the buck doesn't stop with the people in charge, with whom does it stop? The FADSS report holds management accountable, and so do I.
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I agree with you...I can not understand how come those complaining can not understand that this is NOT only a statewide issue but an issue many school districts throughout the nation are facing with surging fuel and energy prices.
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I'm not sure how the district's electricity rate is figured; I've never heard of them negotiating with Progress Energy. That could be a factor. Another factor, though, is the age of many of the buildings. Walk around a few of them, and you'll find old facilities with poor insulation. Money invested in fixing these issues would be recouped through lower energy bills. However, the person in charge of facilities--while a nice guy--has no background in this sort of thing, as far as I know. He's a former teacher and coach.
As for fuel costs... I'm not sure that the district does buy its diesel locally. But note that the FADSS report is commenting on the price of fuel per STUDENT, not per GALLON. These are not the same things. A big reason for this cost is that Taylor's buses run with very low occupancy (an average of 32 kids per bus, by far lower than any of the other 6 districts Taylor was compared to). This issue is being tackled, though, with a significant reduction in bus routes for next year. The district seems to be doing the right thing in this regard.
As for class sizes... It may surprise you to know that studies have been inconclusive on the effect of smaller class sizes on student performance. The issue isn't as cut-and-dry as people usually think.
Regardless, the district has to adhere to Florida law. This means that on average, classes can't have more than 18 kids through 3rd grade, 22 kids in grades 4-8, and 25 kids in grades 9-12. The FADSS report indicated that the district could cut around 40 teachers--well beyond the number they've announced that they're cutting--and still meet the legal requirements.
In terms of comparing TCMS to TCHS... Do you think that smaller classes are the reason for the performance difference? You might be surprised to know that for 2007-08, the average class size at TCHS was SMALLER than at TCMS (20.57 at TCMS vs. 18.71 at TCHS). You might also be interested to know that throughout the state of Florida, there is--EVERYWHERE--a decrease in student performance between 8th and 9th grades. Many kids do worse after moving to high school; this isn't unique to Taylor County.
As for the layoffs... Yes, they're certainly warranted. People are ALWAYS going to complain about layoffs, so it's no surprise that this is happening. However, one big complaint is that the district isn't following the FADSS report consistently. It made TCHS cut the number of teachers recommended by the report, for example, but it didn't make TCMS do the same. And it made Perry Primary cut a teacher even though the report actually said that school was UNDERstaffed and should actually hire two new teachers!
This, I think, was a big source of complaints. That plus the fact that the cuts were supposed to be decided on by a committee called the Executive Leadership Committee, but in reality that committee did not make the decisions.
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In response to your remark about class sizes I quote the NEA. Please visit their site and this is their thoughts...Maybe you should be able to provide case studies to back up the comments. :The National Education Association recommends a student-teacher ratio of 15 to 1 and even smaller figures in those classes that have students with exceptional needs. Reducing class sizes permits individualized attention for students and allows teachers to enhance each students learning. Also, a reduction of students will help regulate safety, discipline and conduct in the classroom environment. The entire community involved in a student’s academic career, including parents, teachers, and the student, will benefit from a cutback in classroom size. Not only will teachers have time to focus on each student and their everyday needs, but students will feel more comfortable in the classroom and in turn have a much better learning experience. Gaps between those students not succeeding and those who are may continue to close in if class sizes are reduced and teachers provide a more student-centered classroom. Decreasing the number of students in a classroom will equal enhanced learning for each student (NEA: Class Size).To further the point that small class sizes are more effective in schools, a second study on Class Size Reduction (Jean Krieger, Ph.D.) should be noted. Krieger looked at the interactions between effective teachers in small size classes compared to that of normal size classes. The study observed 11 public schools in Louisiana and found interesting confirmation that small size classes provide children with a better learning environment.From the observations, the study found that “Teachers in small classes were using less verbal interactions and did not have to redirect their students as frequently as did the teachers in regular classes.” (Krieger 4) The study noted many other interesting observations regarding teacher student interaction in small classes.The ramifications of not addressing the teacher-student problem are becoming more evident in secondary and higher education classes. Low class sizes in elementary schools have proven to enhance testing scores, graduation rates, and college success. Our nation claims to want every student to have the best possible education. I end with this quote: "What greater or better gift can we offer the republic than to teach and instruct our youth."
By Marcus T. Cicero
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The NEA is a special interest that's often opposed to good ideas if they think it will mean more work or less money for teachers. And that's okay--they's the NEA's job. But we need to recognize it for what it is, and not expect objectivity from it.
Separate studies by Eric A. Hanushek and Caroline M. Hoxby analyzed the famous "Tennessee STAR" study--which many use to advocate smaller classes--was flawed in a variety of manners that makes its outcome suspect. The US Department of Education analyzed data on class size and found it to be "somewhat mixed" and, according to the NY Times, "found no consistent tie between smaller class sizes and higher standardized test scores." A consortium consisting of RAND, the American Institutes for Research, Policy Analysis for California Education, WestEd, and EdSource did a study and "concluded that they could not determine the effect of reducing class size on student achievement" and that "there is also a body of research that suggests that reducing class size is not necessarily the most cost-effective investment available, and that greater gains may be obtained through investment in other areas of education reform" (according to the Association for Supervision and Curriculum Development).
As I wrote earlier, the issue isn't as cut-and-dry as people think. Evidence is mixed on the effect of smaller class sizes on studies, and also whether smaller class sizes--even if one accepts that they improve student performance--offer the greatest return on investment.
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I guess all these case studies are flawed also ?
Class Size Reduction
PSEA Promising Practices to Close Student Achievement Gaps
More than a decade of research has consistently confirmed the impact of small class size on student
achievement. Particularly for younger racial and ethnic minority students, students from low income
families, and other students who are at risk of failure, class size matters. This is a point that teachers have
made for decades; recently, however, the voices of teachers have been joined by others: the U.S.
Department of Education, The Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching, the National
Association of Elementary School Principals, and the National Science Teachers’ Association have all
encouraged states and districts to configure schools so that classes have about 15 to 18 students,
particularly in the early elementary years and in schools and classrooms that serve large numbers of at-risk
students. Class size reduction has become an important part of efforts to close student achievement gaps.
Class size reduction improves student achievement in several ways. First, smaller classes allow teachers
to individualize instruction and recognize and intervene with student learning problems more efficiently.
Consequently, smaller class sizes lead to higher student test scores, particularly among African American
students and students living in poverty; one study found that reducing classes from 22 to 15 students in the
early elementary years could reduce the black/white test score gap by 38 percent.
1
Smaller class sizes
also have other, more subtle, positive impacts on a school’s learning environment:
• Improved student behavior resulting in less vandalism, fewer suspensions and expulsions, and
fewer classroom disruptions.
• Fewer student retentions in the early elementary grades.
• Fewer high school dropouts. Low income students who attended small classes in the first four
years of elementary school are 18 percent more likely to graduate from high school than low-
income students who attended average-sized classes in early elementary school.
2
• Higher teacher morale that translates into higher rates of attendance, reduced substitute costs, and
less teacher attrition.
• Earlier, more accurate identification of student learning disabilities.
• Higher student achievement. One study found that when compared to students in average-sized
classes, students in smaller classes in the early years take more advanced courses in high school
and are more likely to graduate in the top 10 percent of their class.
3
Another study found that
African American students who attended small classes in the early elementary years were more
likely to take the SAT and ACT in high school. This study estimated that smaller elementary class
sizes alone could reduce the black/white gap in SAT and ACT participation by 60 percent.
Again, I question you, are you a candidate ? If you are concerned why have you not filed ?
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You know what they say, T.Mac... There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.
The PSEA is just another version of the NEA--their goal is to spend more money on schools, spend more money on teachers' salaries, and reduce accountability. As with the NEA, it's important to recognize that the PSEA is a political action commity and not an objective third party.
Northwestern University did a study concluding that "contradicts assumptions that class size reduction might have a significant effect on the gap" (according to a March Washington Post article).
But that's not the point... You and I can both keep digging up contradictory studies, which only serves to prove my initial point--that studies on class size are contradictory.
Keep this in mind... The PSEA recommends a class sizes of no greater than 20 for grades 6-12(http://www.psea.org/content.cfm?Filen=resolutions 2007.pdf). TCHS's average class size was less than this, at an average of under 19. TCMS's was greater than this, at an average of 21. And yet, TCMS's school grade is higher than TCHS's--so clearly there are factors other than class size at work here.
As for why I don't run... There are several reasons, not the least of which is that I have no desire to go through the campaign process. It's just not in my nature to go door-to-door begging for votes. I'm well-qualified, but people rarely consider that when voting in local elections.
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I am just simply providing facts, Have you ran out of some to post ? Classes with too many students are often disrupting to education. Also, too many students in a class results in a diverse field of students, with varying degrees of learning ability and information uptake. Consequently, the class will spend time for less academic students to assimilate the information, when that time could be better spent progressing through the curriculum. In this way, student-teacher ratios are compelling arguments for advanced or honors classes.
The issue of students' ability to work effectively in groups (as opposed to time-waste and chatting) and peer-teaching is a complex and controversial issue.
Numerous sources argue that lower student to teacher rations are better at teaching students complex subjects such as physics, mathematics and chemistry, than those with a higher ratio of students to teachers. Commonly the schools with lower student to teacher ratios are more exclusive, have a higher attendance of non-blacks, are in non-inner urban areas and/or fee-paying (non-government) institutions[1].
The manifold arguments and controversies of funding and student-teacher ratios have been the basis for a multitude fo studies and debates. One view is illustrated below:
Many analysts have found that extra school resources play a negligible role in improving student achievement while children are in school. Yet many economists have gathered data showing that students who attend well-endowed schools grow up to enjoy better job market success than children whose education takes place in schools where resources are limited. For example, children who attend schools with a lower pupil-teacher ratio and a better educated teaching staff appear to earn higher wages as adults than children who attend poorer schools.[1]
Governments tend to argue, perhaps with an eye on cost-savings and limiting public expenditure, that higher student-teacher ratios have no net negative on outcomes. This may be considered by some as not only cynical and counter-intuitive but disproven by certain facts. Furthermore, the complex and inter-relationships of socio-economics, class, race, ethnicity and achievement are all key factor in the debate. It remains a highly contentious debate and unlikely to be satisfactorily resolved.
As stated make a difference, run, if you are as well qualified as you say you will not have to as you say "beg" for votes. Jusyt simply walking a street introducing yourself to the people is not begging for a vote.
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Run out of facts? I've referenced studies in all of my recent posts. How can you say that?
My point was that there's no reason for you and I to continue posting references to studies that have different conclusions. It serves no purpose, other than to prove what I've been saying all along--which is that studies do not agree on the effects of class size on narrowing the achievement gap. That fact is indisputable.
I want to make it clear that I'm not arguing for giant classes. Here's what Florida law requires:
Pre-K through 3rd grade = 18 students
4th through 8th grade = 22 students
9th through 12 grade = 25 students
Those numbers don't seem unreasonable to me. The NEA's call for a max class size of 15 in all grades is absolutely unreasonable, and will NEVER get funded. Not in Taylor County or any other county. That's just reality.
As for running for the school board... I have no desire to go door-to-door. In fact, I absolutely loathe the idea. Not to mention the fact that I don't have time to do that or the responsibilities that come with being a board member between working full time and being a grad student.
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T Mac, I agree with you on some subjects but to say you are happy with the decisions made by current Administration is beyond belief. I have never and never will speak evil of the integrity of any of them. However, I do question the leadership over at least the past 4 years. You are correct in that a portion of the problem is being created from Amendment 1, but that doesn't take effect until the 08-09 school year. The problem has been ongoing for at least the previous 4 years and is well documented in FADSS. In my opinion, at the last board meeting there was a hint that the problem was 1 or 2 previous Finance Directors. That is proposterous, unless they were left unchecked to do business. Look at some of the surrounding county administrations. Jefferson is having to make up $500,000, a far cry from the $2.8 million at Taylor. I have not filed papers to run because I feel I am not qualified. This does not mean I cannot demand accountability.
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Are you not a US citizen? Are you not 18 ? Then why are you not qualified to run ? One of the finest Senators the state of Tennessee ever has was a gentleman by the name of Davey Crockett.....Yes, I am saying I am fine with their decisions and Jefferson County is one of the smallest deficits being made up per county..Check ALL the county's,many of rural counties are far off worse than Taylor County. MAYBE, we have not had a decent finance director since the late Vince Dorman, but the blame is not the boards...As far as accountability how do you account for unaccounted energy costs ? Costs such as the rising cost of fuel ?
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The board of any organization or corporation has to insure accountability. Just what does the Board members do if not hold the Administration accountable? Cost of rising fuel affects all districts and all households. But, just as you in your home, have measures to minimize and control costs. Qualified...maybe. A desire...definately not. That still doesn't mean I can't demand accountability for my tax dollars. I voted for a paid representative to look after my interests and feel I have been let down.
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T.Mac - One thing to consider is that employees of the district can't run. Well, they can, but if they win they have to quit their job. And considering that being a board member only pays $25k, it's doubtful that many employees would be interested.
On the subject of fuel costs, note that the issue may be more of how much fuel is used than of how much it cost per gallon. Did you see what the FADSS report said about bus occupancy? Taylor has been running buses with way fewer kids than any of the 6 other comparison districts. Taylor's average bus occupancy was 32. The next lowest was madison, at 49. That's a big reason fuel costs were so high--lots of half-empty buses were being run. This is being corrected for the next school year, though.
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Do you not recognize the size of Taylor County ? Our beloved county is larger than the state of Rhode Island. The state law states that a student csan not spend longer than 75 minutes one way on a bus...Hence we have to run more bus routes. Why not eliminate the routes within two miles of the school ? Know why we can not ? State law says that the Boards do not have to furnish transportation to school if a student is within two miles of the school. The reason we could not is a lot of people will scream discrimination.....the other is that parents are too lazy to make their children go to school and depend on the bus getting there....
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I'm well aware of the size of Taylor County, and the FADSS report took this into account. Note that the six other counties Taylor was compared to were big rural counties, too--the report doesn't compare apples to oranges.
Taylor does have the lowest population per square mile (19), and that's definitely a factor. However, that alone doesn't justify the district's expenditure of over $1,200 per student in transportation costs--much higher than all six comparison districts. In second place was Madison, spending $900 per student.
The fact is that the district made a conscious decision to run buses with fewer kids. This decision was not based on population density; it was based on a desire to separate kids on buses by grade level.
As I mentioned before, the district has brought in the former (now-retired) Transportation Coordinator to address the issue. He has re-worked the entire district's bus route system, and several routes are being eliminated at an estimated savings of $150,000. Additionally, a transportation aide position is being eliminated, at a savings of around $14,000.
I will admit that I've never heard of the state law setting a maximum time that can be spent on a bus. I searched the statutes, and couldn't find it. Which title and chapter is that in? I'd definitely like to read it over.
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I couldn't have said it any better! This is what should of been said at the school board meeting! I have a better idea, let them donate the entire year's salary! It would be a great tax write-off for these folks, and remember this is only a supplemental job for them. They ALL work elsewhere and just do this on the side! Why hasn't the Personnell Head Honcho been blaimed? Doesn't all of this overstaffing go through him? No money has been trimmed off of his salary has it?
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If im not mistaking hasn't it been said somewhere in these blogs that one school board member donates his entire salary back to the school system...?
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Why the Director of Personnel hasn't taken responsibility for this is beyond me. You're absolutely correct that he's responsible for the overstaffing. However, for reasons which remain a mystery to me, neither the board nor the superintendent have lost faith in him.
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T. Mac: I can't believe you actually believe you insulted NO ONE and you just spoke a plain truth. Granted we live in the greatest county in the world. My question is this: in this great country of ours, where a person can go anywhere when they want to and find a job, why is the unemployment rate as high as it is? I know plenty of folks who are looking right here in Perry (anywhere they can) who are WILLING to work and not just collect a paycheck, but can't find a job. I know these individuals are not (as you say) feel they are below the job. Businesses are closing due to the poor economic situation. Grossly underpaid -no those are migrant workers. Underpaid and abused by students and parents - often true. School is not what is was 5-10-15-20 years ago. Teachers have to coddle students. They don't feel like doing any work, oh well. What can you do? Parental support is limited to say the least. Students want to act out and disrespect their teachers, classmates, etc. oh well, they are from single parent homes, often without a positive male role model in the home, don't have enough to eat, don't want to be in school, think it is a waste of time, would rather clown than get an education, don't come to school on a regular basis, and wonder why they are failing and can't pass the FCAT! Everyone has an excuse for student issues and want to blame teachers for their shortcomings. These students and their parents have to be accountable for their actions. Teachers are often mentors, parents in absentia, guidance counselors, a shoulder to cry on, a sounding board, nurses, people who work endless hours preparing lessons, grading papers, calling parents, spending LOTS of their own money to buy supplies, and then are bashed when they want raises. Most folks would say teachers get off at 3:15, have two weeks off at Christmas, one week off in the spring, and 9-10 weeks in the summer, but during the summer they are attending professional development classes mandated by the state or the district to better educate their students. Many teachers, especially NEW teachers, work long past 3:15! And you are right - THEY CHOSE THEIR PROFESSION, but remember teachers make all other professions possible. Do you think teachers should be allowed to collect unemployment during the summer months when they are not working? After all, if you were told you were going to be off for the next 9-10 weeks, would you file for unemployment benefits? But guess what? Teachers can't draw unemployment because technically they are still employed. Only when a teacher's contract is not renewed are they eligible for unemployment. And if teachers are still technically employed by the school district, do you know an employer who would want to hire them knowing they will be returning to the classroom in a couple months? If you do, please share with all the teachers who are OFF FOR THE SUMMER.
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Maybe these old topic should be reviewed while the school election topic is being discussed so loudly
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