County Hiring Practices
This topic was raised to me via email and I have been discussing this with the individual for a few days trying to get enough information to maybe make this a thinking discussion since I don't keep up with County openings, instead of it being completely about negativity towards administration. As always, though, your comments are welcome regardless of the direction. This will be a little lengthy as I have incorporated my thoughts in with their comments. Also, I want to stress that this is in no way meant to be directed at the two people who were hired, nor will it turn into that. I do not know them and am sure they are fine people.
Several weeks ago there were two openings in upper level positions within the County, one due to a resignation and the other for retirement. The positions were Emergency Management Coordinator (EM) to assist the Emergency Management Director and the other was Human Resources Director (HR). From what I understand, there were several applicants as expected in this volatile job market, including current County employees. I do not know how many County employees applied, but for sake of this topic, we will include a finalist in each open position, because that is really all the information I have at this time. Even though I know the names of the two, I will leave them out as it is really irrelevant to the topic and I will respect their privacy. First the employee finalist for the EM position from what I have gathered has a strong, stable work history with management and office experience, loads of experience dealing with the public and is a local person who is as known in the community as someone could be without being in politics. This person had very little EM experience, but considering past coordinators, not a necessity. They have been involved in EM stuff through past work experience, but not sure how. Some college with no degree.
The HR finalist is the one that actually bothers me the most. This current County employee has been a loyal employee for over 18 years with the County, if my information is correct. They actually have experience in that position with the County in an interim capacity, filling in for a vacationing or sick Director, etc, and from what I understand, was actually approached by someone in Administration and encouraged to apply. Can't verify this, but was given the impression that they had the job, just needed to go through the motions. This person also has an AA, and also local and known well.
Now down to the discussion. The County boasts a hire from within policy, but in both these cases, neither got the job. Both jobs were filled by people outside of Taylor County. My understanding is the hiring from within policy is trumped by a four year degree, of which both have. The new HR Director also has experience in that position, but the EM person did not and from what I get is straight out of college. Again, I don't know them and understand they are doing a fine job so far and this is not about them. As far as the hiring process goes, all I know is there is come kind of interview board, but I don't know who makes the final decision.
The discussion is this:
Do you think a four year degree should always trump dedication and work experience?
Do you think a four year degree should always trump taking care of our own, if they have excellent work history?
Here is my take and I look forward to hearing yours. I can completely appreciate a college education, but a college can not teach you what a long work history can. These two County employees were qualified enough to be finalists, so someone obviously thought they could do the job if they got it. Now, if the County would have giving these two current employees the jobs, not only would it have bettered their lives, but it would have created two open positions for two more local citizens that needed a job and considering the unemployment rate in the County, I know there are plenty needing jobs. As a tax payer, I would rather see it go to local citizens if possible and take care of us. I am not hating on the ones that got it, but why bring in two people that live elsewhere, when we have qualified people here. Also, what kind of moral or hope does that give to the present County employees when they won't even give a promotion to an experienced, 18 year employee, much less the citizens of Taylor County who needs jobs? At times it seems people would rather see someone else succeed instead of their fellow citizen. So again, do you think the County should have given the jobs to the current employees and opened up two more opportunities for Taylor County or should it always go to the ones with the most education? Please your thoughts and experiences are needed.
Great topic BM. I just do not have the time right now to comment. Will get back to you, are the new employees mormans or have the last name of Brown? A lot of nepotism has been going on at the school board, county and such.....
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No, I honestly don't think it has anything to do with nepotism, nor do I have anything negative to say about the new employees because I really don't want this to be about them, but they are 4 year degree holders.
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You typically know what you get with a 18 year employee that has worked their way up through the ranks. Work ethic has been established, ability to learn has been established. I have seen so many good college grads over the years use companies as a stepping stone. Here today and gone tomorrow after much training has been spent.
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As a comparison, many people were suprised at who was hired for TTI director. My understanding is that the hiring team were all out of towners, so as to be completely unbiased. And Jim Brannan came out on top.
Maybe the county does something similar, in which case not knowing the person they would lean toward credentials rather than that person's standing or reputation in the community. That factor may not be in the hiring "parameters" for an outside hiring team.
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I do not think this is true (about TTI). The fact is that Dyal was not going to hire any dynamic individual and the salary was greatly reduced. Heck Dyal wanted to move all the programs to TCHS. LOL!! In respect to the county employee, it really goes to (1) are you just rewarding longevity? (2) Waht has the 18 yr employee done to prepare for the job other than keep a seat warm? (3) Is the person actually qualified and meets qualifications? (4) KSA's-knowledge skills and abilities. We all know many folks in the courthouse and related offices that should have been thrown out with the trash long ago. I would tend to trust Jack Brown's direction on this. Is the 18 year employee in question the one that coordinates the vote buying in the Jerkins area?
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I believe everything is done "in-house" for employees who are not department heads. The interview board is comprised of county employees, not sure if they are department heads or not.
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Just as a blanket statement: 4 year degree trumps experience. Its what everyone goes to college in hopes of and the reason they invest 100's of thousands of dollars in themselves and the system. The 18yr employee should have taken a few of those years and went to night school and finished a degree.
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Interesting you think that. Hypothetically, if you were an employer and had a vacancy open and you had an 18 year employee who was completely capable of stepping in and filling the position and expressed interest, and you still advertised the position anyway and had a college graduate (4 year) apply who did not live here, you would automatically overlook the 18 year employee and hire the graduate?
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I would be curious to know how the job descriptions read for the positions in question. If they specified that a four-year degree was a requirement, then it's an open-and-shut case. Current employees without that degree simply don't qualify. If they were interested in advancing to positions of upper management, then as Farmer said they should've completed college since most upper management positions require that (I'm speaking in general terms; I'm not sure what the county's requirements are).
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I checked that out also before posting and a college degree was not a requirement.
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Well a lot of folks around here at the school board and other entities just re-write job descriptions to fit who they want for the position. Also I agree that just by sitting in a position for 18 years does not make you qualified for a position if you have not seen fit to invest in yourself with additional credentials/qualifications.
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I agree that just sitting in a position for 18 years doesn't automatically qualify you, but as stated in the post, the employee was experienced and trusted enough to fill in for the HR Director when they were out for an extended period of time. Also, this person pretty much does this type of work for the department that they work for and this person also has an AA along with the 18 years.
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It sounds like the person that did not get the job, is crying over spilt milk, they should advance themselves in education and prepare for the job, maybe this is the person who did not get the job that is posting.
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It's my understanding that all applicants for the HR position had to take a written assessment to measure their knowledge of issues relating to that field. How did the performance of the internal candidate on the assessment compare to that of the external candidate?
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That is a good question and I want to say that, although it may sound like I am, I am not necessarily questioning the decision because I was not involved in the process. What I am questioning is the reason given. The reason given to both candidates was that it came down to a four year degree. Nobody said they were not qualified, because from what I understand all applicants must pass the requirements stated in the job posting via HR before you are granted an interview. I am also raising the argument or discussion regarding should a qualified employee always be given first opportunity and I also questioned should a 4 year degree always trump experience and loyalty. Personally, I think all positions should be posted and filled internally whenever possible before it is advertised to the general public. I think it should always be that way in any company and more so when it is local citizens getting paid with my local tax dollars. I want to see Taylor County citizens succeed and advance and it seems to me that current administration doesn't feel that way and if I was a county employee not advancing/promoting a qualified, 18 year employee speaks volumes. I would have to think that wherever I was, that is where I am going to be. It would not surprise me if the county didn't begin to start losing talented and loyal employees once companies start hiring again, especially if the company actually recognizes their talents, abilities and loyalty.
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Dear Blog moderator, If in fact someone is telling you that they were not hired for this position strictly because they didn't have a four year degree then you are being misled. In regards, to the Director of the Human Resource position current Board employees that applied were given extra points for being Board employees and also additional points for being current residents of Taylor County. Experience counted as well as education but there is much more to being the director of human resources than processing payroll, retirement forms, etc. We had several great employees apply for this position and were happy that they applied. Hiring the right person for a position is critical. We take it serious. The selection was based upon related work experience, education, and knowledge of human resource law and practices as demonstrated during the interview and on a written test. The criteria was in relation to the entire span of duties of a Director of Human Resources. No one was promised this job before hand. I personally discussed with our two employees why they were not selected for the position and what they could do in the future to improve their chances of being selected should they want to apply again if the position becomes available. While they were encouraged to continue to seek additional education it was in relation to an understanding of human resources not just to have a four year degree. The questions for the written test were recommended to us by the insurance company that provides employment law recommendations to the Florida Associations of Counties. A representative of the insurance company was on the interview committee. We had the review process reviewed by the insurance company prior to interviews and selection was made.
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Mr. Brown, I very much appreciate your post regarding the selection process for the position. I also have no doubts that you and the rest of the administration takes hiring personnel seriously and as a tax payer that is what I expect. I want the best people available in positions to protect the County's interest as it is all of our interests as well. Even though I know it seems I am questioning or attempting to derogate or discredit the final decision, I am not. I am sure the person picked was the most qualified, and after reading that a knowledgeable person from the insurance was part of the process, I am even more comfortable with the decision. I originally wanted to know people's thoughts regarding education vs. experience, but I couldn't help interjecting my personal feelings regarding hiring from within. As having sat on your side of the table, I was very passionate in regards to promoting from within because I had worked for companies in the past that constantly recruited from the outside. It is very demoralizing to the employees and even though it may not be the intent, it happens. Whenever possible I looked to current employees to fill vacant positions without even posting externally, but I will acknowledge that in some positions, that is not possible. Regardless, if HR thought the person was qualified enough to receive an interview, I feel that appreciation should be given for the 18 years of loyalty by returning it back to the employee. Most qualified is always the safest bet, but not always the best. I know the County has a probationary period and this could have been used to insure that any weaknesses they may have are properly addressed, and I am sure the retiring HR Director would have been there through the transition as needed. Again, thank you for the insight and I hope the person acts on your recommendations to better prepare themselves for any future vacancies as I am loyal to my community and want to see my fellow neighbors succeed and grow, especially when it involves local tax dollars.
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Mr. Monitor, NOT To BASH ANYONE:::::
You must look at the way things are set up. The Administrator has a Bachelor's Degree, and 2 Masters degrees.
Administration feels the people of Taylor County are dumb. Administration has the Board of County Commissioners doing everything he says, they work the County by Admin's direction. Administration, will only Hire people they are Superior than. If Frank Russell was up on the Board Taylor County People would have Taylor County Jobs First.
Admin. hires a Sports Complex manager at 17,000. dollars to collect $1.00 per person who goes to see their kids play on a sports complex They (tax payers) already paid for. WHY, WHY??
But out of town teams have made arrangements to play high school baseball and softball games on the BIG fields for free. WHY, WHY,
Do you know how many people (parents and grand parents will have to visit Crooked Commissioner Field to pay for the 17,000.00 per year person plus retirement, and matching taxes. ??? Lots and LOTS. But Administration, said do it and the BOCC said yes MASTER. The City is the only Council that takes care of the Black people. The County Admin. and their hand picked team ( the new HR & EM managers do not and are not required to live in Taylor County and pay taxes). WHY WHY ??
Why was the selection results NOT posted.
Experience is more valuable in a Emergency Manager than a no experience person with a degree as college is taught on theory only. But there is Nothing we as citizens can do about it. There is a lock on the BOCC. UNLESS
we vote others in and Get them to make a change. Last year no raises for county employees , this year ???? on raises, NO one has said, but The Board gets a raise, ( Legislator) the Administration gets a raise??(BOCC) Administrator pay ( public record) $115,000 plus retirement and insurance package HUMMMM? AGAIN WHY WHY WHY ?????
Well ONCE our Administrator was a commissioner ,then chose not to run, then had 3 commissioners vote him County administrator, without an interview process from any Insurance company person. Then why do our citizens go through a military tribunal & Insurance company interviewer????
That commissioner's Board gave us the Hospital Blunder then Bailed, and was hired as Administrator.
The Administration has made some good suggestions on some things, but always in favor for bigger more Government , and higher taxes and cost for the citizens, but the people should not have to pay for our parks and boat ramps two and three times . Remember Administration is not elected they can do what they want !!! I feel the BOCC should be looking to take care and advance their long time employees, our citizens, not bring in others to RULE us and take a 18 year solid years of hard work, and say you should not have made the County better this past 18 years you should have went to college to get a better job 18 years later . The was written "Not to show any disrespect, just my open and honest debate".
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You bring up quite a few issues, and I'm not in a position to address them all. But looking solely at the issue of the HR position, I don't understand what more you want. The candidate with the 18 years of experience had the opportunity to prove himself/herself in an interview and via a written knowledge assessment. He/she didn't come out on top in this regard. He/she also go bonus points for being a local resident, and more for being a current county employee. He/she *still* didn't have enough points to be the top candidate after that. Clearly this person just wasn't yet ready for this job.
In any local government job--whether it's the city, county, or school district--I want the BEST person. If the best person is a local who already works there, that's even better. But I'm of the opinion that positions should ALWAYS be advertised externally, because the goal should be to get the best person in the job regardless of where they're from or where they currently work. Limiting yourself to internal candidates doesn't seem prudent, especially in the current economy in which organizations are finding that they can often hire people with more skill, knowledge, and experience than they could've afforded in the past.
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This site has turned completely into a joke, there is no disscussion on it, just constant complaining from a few people who must have nothing to do but sit around and complain, they must lead miseariable lives and have nothing to do with their life, I truly believe that TCC and the Blog Man have only the most constuctive things to offer, Blog Man you ought to get to reading the post first and just cut out the bashing and complaining. This way maybe intelligent people would feel compelled to blog.
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To
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A joke, well you are definitely entitled to your opinion, but to many in Taylor County it is not. There used to be many that posted and contributed to discussion, but were easily pushed away by some bloggers before I could get a hand on it. I wish they would come back instead of just reading. Let me add that with any site open to the public, you are going to get all types of comments. Some will be very relevant to the discussion and others will not, that is just the nature of the beast. One thing I will not do is go back on my premise from the start and not allow people to speak their minds, as long as it is not too out of line. You see maybe this is their outlet for something that is frustrating to them and it is their way of contributing or getting it off their chest. Many times those frustrations are removed by replies to those comments that gives them information that sheds light on what they think is wrong. Take this topic for example, look at the quality information we all received from Mr. Brown regarding the HR position hiring. You see, in reality, that is our employee including Mr. Brown and all other employees of the tax payers of Taylor County for that matter and it is obvious to me that they picked a candidate based on experience and knowledge for a very important position and not someone that is a friend or family member like many in County government are accused of doing. Also, I found out the County will pay for some additional training and/or education for an employee that is relevant to their contributions to the County, so there is help for current employees to get help advancing.
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It sounds like the insurance company was the one that made the decision on who to hire.
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No, it just sounds like their expertise in this subject matter was relied upon--as is prudent.
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You are damned if you do and damned if you don't. Had the county hired someone local, you would be saying, "the good ol' boy system." Now they hire someone outside of the system, and what about the folks that have worked with them for 18 or so years. People, you can't have it both ways! Did any of you stop to think that maybe those employees who were NOT selected were not the best candidates for the job? Gee, what a concept...hiring the best candidate for the job AND NOT a person with ties to former commissioners.
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I too am not trying to be negative, but lets look at this blog. Most if not all comments have been bashing of every aspect that the County's hiring practice. You know the people put the Commissioners in place, and they wanted them to do the job, therefore the commissishioners hired the best canidate for the cordinator's position. Jack has and will do a good job. no noone is perfect and noone is going to please everyone, but the few that blog do nothing but complain, read the blogs and I believe you will agree. This site was contructive critisiam once now it has become a bashing board for a few people who probably do not have the time to do positive things in their life. I am all for a good blog page but the constant bashing is just to much. My thoughts, I will keep reading but until the tone stops there probably will not be the people who need to comment will.
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It seems pretty clear that Jack Brown has followed personnel policies and procedures correctly in this case. I would hate to think what shape the personnel department would be in if the "18 year" employee or other "in-house" employee would have been promoted. While each incumbent employee may be a great employee and person, they may not be qualified for the position applied for. I think it is great that there was a team approach to the hiring and that an insurance rep was there, there is one thing we do not need and more cronys in positions!
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Can we get Jack to hire hospital personnel or keep cronys off that board?
You know, Spread his team approach to a wider arena. Maybe he could do HR for the Sheriff too. Unfortunately he can't help with elected officials or the good ol' boy system. But give him a break, no one's perfect. And he is kinda busy anyway.
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I must say that Jack is doing the best job possible. Even though Jack and I have not seen "eye to eye" on every issue, Jack has not once turned away from me when we met or has never been anything but courteous when speaking. He appears to let those in charge lead which is the true sign of a leader. I'm sure if I dug deep enough I might find some little thing to blast Jack about but I'll give him a break for now. In these tough times we need someone who's willing to do his best for Taylor County, ok trailer county as some suggested, "whatever", as kids say nowadays. I chose to live and die here cause heaven ain't that far away. And if anyone that is better steps up to the plate to oust him, good luck, go for it dude. Until then, Thanks to Jack Brown for putting up with your classmates, neighbors, enemies and armchair quarterbacks etc.... your a class act all the way...
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Jim, this is a friend of yours, you are beating a dead horse trying to talk to the people on TCT, they have no life, so therefore they have nothing better to do except find fault in everything everyone else does. Good luck with the intellegent comments yopu make but they are wasted words my friend. When I see you around I will tell you who I am.
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The practice of hiring person(s) outside the community to fill positions in the county government is easily explained. A person without knowledge of the community and the actions of the local government can be given any amount of mis information without questioning the information. It is unproblematic for those in need of hiding truths and knowledge to continue the masquerade.
This is also one of the reasons the community never improves quality of life conditions for the residents. Wages are low, jobs are labor intensive and regulations and enforcement of workforce safety and community rights to know are minimal to non existent. Not to mention that some one outside the community receives a high salary, pleasant working conditions and good benefits.
If you don’t believe this, then you don’t know jack.
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Officials in Taylor County can't win. When they put locals in high positions, they're accused of cronyism. But if they bring in outsiders, they're slammed for that, too. Just what is it that they're supposed to do, exactly?
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They tickle me screaming fault finding while fault finding. Isn’t that avoiding the issue as well as the discussion? Do they ever get tire of patting their backs now that’s hard work.
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4/19/2010 7:40 AM jim's friend wrote:
Jim, this is a friend of yours, you are beating a dead horse trying to talk to the people on TCT, they have no life, so therefore they have nothing better to do except find fault in everything everyone else does. Good luck with the intellegent comments yopu make but they are wasted words my friend. When I see you around I will tell you who I am.
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Telling the truth in trailer county is like adding yeast to flour always get a rise.
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Amen too funny!
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Anonymous wrote:
The practice of hiring person(s) outside the community to fill positions in the county government is easily explained. A person without knowledge of the community and the actions of the local government can be given any amount of mis information without questioning the information. It is unproblematic for those in need of hiding truths and knowledge to continue the masquerade.
This is also one of the reasons the community never improves quality of life conditions for the residents. Wages are low, jobs are labor intensive and regulations and enforcement of workforce safety and community rights to know are minimal to non existent. Not to mention that some one outside the community receives a high salary, pleasant working conditions and good benefits.
If you don’t believe this, then you don’t know jack.
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The cult of the Browns. They have done well with their heads in the public funded feed trough! City, County ans school board, are they all US citizens?
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To my friend, don't worry about the comments on here. These folks are probably cousins of mine since mama was born north of town near Shady Grove and daddy was born south of town in Carbur...I'm kin to bout everybody in between... So just think of this as sittin on the porch braggin about who's got the best deer dawgs. And notice I ain't said nothing about the mud boggin...its too close to home for me...talkin bout that would be blastame. Debating the issue close to us is what Mr. Moderator has this site for so lets us it or he might just take it off this here internet...so keep postin' cuz...Now bout the time Uncle Sam decided to use greyhounds to hunt deer...They always outrun the deer lookin for rabbits...so he had to go back to beagles...
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